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Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 280 Location: Clemson

I don't know if I have a gun issue, or an ammunition issue. Shooting Herter 1oz. 8's in 16ga. I have a '65 mod.37 with imp. cyl. and oddly enough , a '65 swt 16 with imp. cyl that will not cycle these shells. I have a mod.12, mod.31L, mod. 37 all choked modified that cycles perfectly fine. There is also an 11-48 with a polychoke that cycles great no matter the setting. I have cleaned , polished, lubed,and tried every combination and setting on the swt 16. The shell has to be pulled out of the barrel on the mod 37 after taking the barrel off. They both will shoot and eject any other shell I have tried. Why??? I am out of ideas. Help..... Please!

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2170 Location: Florida

I have had problems with ejection of the Herters 1oz & 1 1/8 oz loads in my Swt 16s . Some times they would run along fine , then the next box will intermittent , next they don't cycle at all . Why I don't know . This in guns that will cycle some of my 3/4 oz loads ( 1150 fps and above ) I quit using them in my Brownings .

It's an ammo issue .

Do you have a powder scale? If so take 10 rounds and open them to weigh each charge of powder then calculate the variation.

Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 280 Location: Clemson

I have no powder scale.

To clarify, are the cartridges sticking in the chamber of both guns or just the 37. I had an early 37 16 that had a tight chamber. It did not like the brass washed steel case heads of cartridges like Herter's. If they are not sticking in the Sweet then they just don`t have the jam to drive it. Set it to Light and oil the mag tube to see if that will work. I suspect they are sticking in the chamber of the sweet also. Saami spec 16 gauge reamer run in each chamber with polish afterwards should fix the problem.

Darryl

Member Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 328

Three things you can do.
Don't shoot Herters in those guns.
Open up the chamber a couple .001s in those guns. Try a drill and rubbing compound.
Resize the shells. Using a collet style resizer. Mec sizemaster. And yes resize the loaded shells. Some people don't. Some people do.

Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Posts: 325 Location: West Texas

It is a known problem in M37's. Ithaca says they can fix it for $150 and a 6-8 week stay in their shop. I have mine there now and will report back as to the effectiveness of their "fix". Mine had that problem with Herters and I bought some Federal long brass for it. It did the same thing, just not quite as bad.

When I inquired at Ithaca they told me that in recent years as the ammunition manufacturers have moved to thinner and thinner steel in the "brass" this problem has cropped up, but they have developed a modification for the barrel that will fix it.

So it's the ammunition's fault and it is I thaca's fault. Your choices are to send it in to Ithaca or purchase more and various expensive ammo to try to find something that will work. I chose the former, thinking that it would probably be least expensive in the long run.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2170 Location: Florida

The factory Herters ammo don't stick in the chamber of My Brownings , they just don't cycle the guns reliably . I can reload the Herters hulls with 3/4 to 1 oz and they work fine in my Brownings .

Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 280 Location: Clemson

The sweet 16 doesn't stick in the chamber, but will not eject. I will shoot other shells in these two- Herters in the rest..... I guess.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2352 Location: West MI

Take a look at the responses in this thread at the Ithaca section of SGW. You are not alone.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=435294&sid=2f49fff410f3ec15bed3e3a1ca75e4a1

Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 280 Location: Clemson

The only reason that this situation became an issue is because I joined a gun club to learn to shoot sporting clays so that I could shoot all my guns more. Since a lot of my guns are 16's, herters were the easiest to get at the best price. I do not plan to compete and I do not plan to be a reloader. The club has skeet, trap ,and 5 stand, and I plan to try these. They also have 2 sporting clays courses. Until now, the only action my guns saw was rabbit hunting, a dove shoot once a year, and maybe 2 quail hunts. I do not have guns that are not used - ALL get shot. So those 2 will be fed different shells on some rabbit hunts. But, it still eludes me why one mod 37 will cycle and the other wont Same with the 2 swt 16's. Oh well, such are the mysteries of gun ownership!

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

I witnessed a 37 and a rem auto (48?) fail to extract Herters rounds, and they won't eject from my short chambered M12 (naturally) nor a later 2 3/4" M12. My 1947 sweet won't eject them either. So, the factory rounds get shot from other guns and the empties get shortened for reloads that work in all guns. I don't know why some guns don't extract them, maybe a rim dimension at the lower end of specs?

I bought a 20ga Beretta 303 for target shooting with cheap factory shells that don't always need collected except to toss in the trash. I could always use factory Rem GL shells in any 16 but at 10buxabox it's a bit much.

As long as I'm straying gauge-wise I should mention I picked up some 12ga Federal Top Gun shells packing just 7/8 of shot and at only 1200fps. Other such loads I've seen are at higher speed, international trap I believe is the intended use, but these are a nice 20-in-a-12 option. An older Beretta S58 Trap gun is much more fun to shoot now--two boxes of light 1 1/8oz is no picnic.

Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Posts: 325 Location: West Texas

I have 3 M31's and a Citori that have no problems with the Herters shells. I guess that is why I opted for Ithaca's 'fix'.

But it appeared to me, given my meager collection of shotguns that the problem was that the extractor notch was cut completely through the chamber on the Ithaca and on the M31's it is not.

The base swells into the notch when the Ithaca is fired. That is the only obvious difference and Ithaca did say that the 'fix' was welding the extractor notch closed and recutting it.

I guess I will find out when I get it back, sometime before Christmas I hope.

I would be interested to know if the guns mentioned here, that I have never owned, do have the extractor notch cut all the way through into the chamber, and if the brass swelling into the notch is seen or suspected in them.